OT slightly - But i found out today LIVE will play automation and tempo synced plugs out of time -if plugin chain is too long
CHAPTER 16. WORKING WITH INSTRUMENTS AND EFFECTS 229
Note: there are a few situations in which Live cannot compensate for plug-in delay:
• Automation is not delay compensated. As a result, when using automation on tracks
that contain devices that cause delays, the automation may sound early.
• Tempo-synced effects and other devices that get timing information from Live’s internal
clock may sound out of sync if they are placed in a device chain after devices which
cause delay.
It's pretty shocking.
so say an LFO tool after a load of plugins will play out of sync?
yes, lets hope they fix it in Live9… I agree it is shocking, quite unprofessional (which is a term I rarely would use).
to be more clear it is nothing about a "chain being too long" but rather plugins which induce latency. These are numerous, and include some instruments.
its such a simple fix they need to do, and not theoretically possible on my end. The workaround as a user is to print things to audio.. which is obviously not ideal :/
Cheers Dude
I knew you'd have some thoughts on it :)
I might start working in a "bounce as you go way" a bit more. Makes it easier to reuse bits from other ideas.
I'm still getting my head round what 'does' and 'doesn't' increase it.
I understand plugin latency and PDC (just about)
What will push the 'automation' and 'plugin tempo sync' to go out of sync?
[*] is it "Per track basis"
[*] or can 'any amount of plug-in latency' in the project, push the whole project out of sync
[*] Can the master channel with latency plugs on it push the projects automation and plug sync out of sync
[*] Does record enable affect this delay
Also i don't completely understand why placing a 'latency plugin' before or after would make a difference?
• Tempo-synced effects and other devices that get timing information from Live’s internal
clock may sound out of sync if they are placed in a device chain after devices which
cause delay.
I've got a few posts on ableton's forum so its cool if your busy :)
Ableton would offer better insight than me as to the inner-workings of their software.
> Also i don't completely understand why placing a 'latency plugin' before or after would make a difference?
It shouldn't, but it does, that is the issue. Live sends the time/position information as if there is zero latency, that is why the order makes a difference to the sound.
I can only speculate they add up the latency of all plugins in the chain, and then feed the track audio "early" by this amount, and send timeposition info as if there is no latency. For them to fix it they would need to send timeposition values offset (unique timeposition info for every plugin which has latency-inducing plugins before it), based on the latency sum prior to the plugin.
Cheers bud
That's a good response
I have posted a few 'gripey' post on their forum :) (insert evil laugh)
I might paste you answer (and palm it off as my own wisdom)
:)
….. …. Wasn't it you who recommended i use live? ;)
…. . Apart from the things that don't work properly I really do enjoy LIVE
Speak Soon
maybe, Live's my favorite host. It has shortcomings, every host does. If you know anyone who doesn't complain about their favorite host, they probably aren't pushing it very hard.. ;)
I've also run into this problem with live… very annoying with automation. Luckily for us LFO Tool is so awesome that one can merely adjust the Phase according to how much delay there is… and "resync" LFO Tool… compensate by hand if you will.
Tell me about it. My #1 issue with Live is the dodgy delay compensation and having to resync the offsets for my analog gear any time you add/remove plugins!
Much room for improvement.
I guess this timing thing is the one drawback of using LFOtool in place of a typical SC comp which stays sync'd.
Hey Steve couldn't you just add a little box to LFOtool where you could type in an offset amount in samples or ms (choice of both) for LFO tool's clock sync? This seems like it would make for precise easy adjustment. The more gear you use the more synchronizing becomes a headache.. it's nice to have tools that at least make it easy & accurate to do.
You can use MIDI retrigger (sending MIDI notes to LFOTool) to achieve the same result.
